Agenda item

Following Scrutiny members approved recommendation i.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved recommendation ii.

 

Following scrutiny, an amendment was put forward in relation to recommendation iii. The amended recommendation as set out below was supported to Cabinet.

 

Approve the revised ‘No Side Waste’ Policy set out in Appendix D of this report; with a review report to be included with the missed collections policy.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved item recommendation iv option b.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved item recommendation V option b

 

Following Scrutiny members approved item recommendation Vi option b

 

Mike Roberts Head of Streetcare gave members an introduction to the report.

 

A member felt that the three weekly bin collection was something that nobody wanted except for the officers and stated that three weekly collections keep reappearing despite the assurances from the cabinet and the leader that the council would not be moving to three weekly collections.

 

The member felt the public’s view in the consultation was that the council shouldn’t have 3 weekly collections. Members highlighted that authorities that have a 2 weekly waste collection are hitting the 70% recycling target.

A member stated that the cabinet and the leadership have the authority to quash the 3 weekly collections option. The member also stated that his party had been accused of scaremongering and lying around three weekly collections.

 

Members felt that 3 weekly collections were not going to be very unpopular if it does get voted through.

Members felt that even when people recycle everything, their bin bags are full after two weeks and they felt that people would not be able to cope if it went to 3 weekly bin collections.

 

Members advised that they understood the financial constraints and recycling targets, but felt it would be vastly unpopular, especially in Aberavon, which is an urban area where members are trying to make improvements slowly and if it went to three weeks, people would go against it and it would set back progress.

The Cabinet member for Streetscene, Cllr Scott Jones stated that he appreciates some of the comments made and noted that it is a very controversial issue amongst residents and agreed that it would be an unpopular choice.

The cabinet member advised that he wanted to steer away from getting into any predetermination matters as he is very mindful that he would be party to this decision-making process in due course but stated that he was comfortable in putting on record and suggesting that he has got concerns with these proposals before members.

 

The Cabinet member advised that he had considered the survey responses and has taken great interest in a lot of the comments that came back from it. He advised that nothing changes in regard to the proposal being part of the 5% departmental budget savings that needs to be met and that the authority is looking at the equivalent of a £739,000 saving needed.

 

The Cabinet member stated that the scrutiny committee and the cabinet collectively need to be mindful that if the proposal goes off the table, that an alternative option will potentially be needed to fill the gap of £739,000 in savings.

 

The chair felt that the committee appreciate the cabinet member being candid in his initial views on this proposal as part of the discussion.

 

Cllr Steve Hunt the Leader of the council asked to clear up confusion around a comment by a member relating to misinformation around the 3 weekly bin collections. He stated that he didn’t want to get into a political debate, but misinformation was given out during elections on leaflets that stated that the council was going to three weekly bin collections.

The leader also advised that officers were tasked with finding an extra 5% saving in the budget proposal which is why this recommendation to save £730,000 has been proposed by officers towards balancing of the financial circumstances.

 

The leader advised that, these are officer’s recommendations and that three weekly bin collections are unpopular, and he had listened to the consultation. He stated that he had to be careful not to predetermine himself until a decision is made.

 

The Leader explained that the council don’t have the full budget information currently from Welsh Government. He explained that there has been a budget announcement by the UK Government and this information now will be considered, and they will see what can be done with some of the recommendations from officers.

The leader advised that officers would continue to do their work and then it will be seen if anything can be taken out of the programme to balance the budget in a different way.

The leader advised that council tax will always play a part in balancing any budget and therefore potentially, if there wasn't going to be three-weekly collections then making up that savings gap could quite easily fall on the council taxpayer.

 

The leader advised that the cabinet does take scrutiny’s views and recommendations very seriously and stated that they have implemented some of them since the current administration has been in place.

 

The Chair appreciated the Leaders response and stated that the leader was correct to say that the proposals in front of the committee are suggestions from officers. The chair clarified that the adopted waste strategy of the cabinet does include the potential to go to three weekly collections, although that wasn't a decision to implement three weekly collections and the consideration of three weekly collections was part of a cabinet report endorsed by the Cabinet as a policy position.

Members were concerned about how realistic the income figure for green waste is for the 25/26 financial year.

Members stated that if the changes are not starting until the 1st of October, then they would only apply for six months of the financial year. Members noted that the report predicts 45% of households are expected to take up the green waste collections. Members believe however as it is only over 6 months, almost everyone signing up to the £40 a year would be needed for this to be achievable.

 

Members also felt that by introducing the charges in October, most people will wait until spring to join the scheme as very little green waste is generated during this period.

 

Officers advised that the three weekly bin collections have been demonstrated to work in terms of driving up performance and that most of Wales is already doing it. Officers explained that the emerging collection blueprint that Welsh Government are producing is going to be saying that frequency should not be more often than three and four weekly collections.

Officers advised that there was a healthy consultation response that represents 5% of households and suggested that perhaps 5% of households don't want three weekly collections rather than, as stated by members that everyone is against it.

 

Officers commented that for councils hitting the 70% target and not having three weekly collections, that tends to be where they do a fortnightly black sack collection with a restriction to equivilent to one bag a week. The budget savings are showing on the report from the three weekly collections, but it could as easily be from the green waste, and they will clarify that once they know what way the votes go.

Officers explained that they had to put the savings together to assist the finance team. Members were informed that when officers come to fill in the budget book, officers were required to log the savings against a budget code.

Members were advised that officers put the savings from the three weekly collections against the 5% savings requirement to give finance an indication what budget it would come out of. Officers advised that they could have equally put it against income from green waste.

Members were informed that this is a tricky report for officers to write, as officers don't know how members are going to vote and were unable to predict what the outcome would be, therefore they wrote the report to cover those options.

Members asked if the charge for green bags also covers the cost of lost or stolen bags throughout the year or would residents have to pay extra to replace those bags? If so, what would the cost be?

 

Officers explained that currently the bags have value to people because the council sells them, and this is why people may want to acquire other people's bags. However, if there is a subscription system and the bags come with a subscription, they lose their value as the end cab system will tell the cab exactly who's on the scheme and who isn't. Therefore, a stolen bag would not be collected as it would not be on the scheme. Officers confirmed that there will be no charge to replace their lost or stolen bags.

 

Members asked how it will be communicated to the public that they have to have the subscription service for green waste collection? Officers recognised the need for significant advertisement to make sure everything is properly communicated to residents.

 

Members noted that the report states that the council will set the pricing structure at a midpoint compared to other councils and asked why the prices other councils charge wasn’t included in the report. Officers advised that they have it available and can share it with members.

 

Members noted that the live feed system is a new system and asked if the council has costings for how much that's going to be to put it into the vehicles? Members also asked if officers have got confidence that the operation by the workers will be accurate. Members were concerned about this because there is missed collection policy already and staff operators aren't attentive to the yellow tags requesting more bags for residents currently.

 

Members asked if officers we're looking at the impact of the proposals on the workforce such as will they be able to operate the equipment efficiently so that they do not miss waste pickups.

 

Officers advised that the live feed system has been costed and the money was provided for it under the waste strategy and is in the reserve waiting to be used. Officers advised that they are linking up with the work other colleagues are doing on the new fleet system and the tracker system so that the live feed system will integrate with those fully.

 

Members were informed that officers have been to other councils to see it working well and have seen positive impacts on missed collections in those authorities.

Officers stated that there would be training for staff and if necessary, re-evaluation as time goes on.

 

Members were concerned that the charging for the green waste could lead to dumping of cut grass which provides a hazard for horses. Members were also concerned that people who don’t subscribe to the scheme may burn waste or put it in it into black bags and asked if this will this reduce the overall tonnage towards the 70% target for recycling and put the council at risk of future fines.

Officers explained that green waste charges can depress the amount of green waste that is collected because people do things like home composting. Officers also advised that there can be a short-term issue of extra fly tipping by going to three weekly collections or introducing green waste collection charges, however, they believe they have got the resources and enforcement to deal with that and in other councils the situation has quickly reverted to normal as people get used to the change.

 

Members felt that some people can't afford to pay for the subscription and that will cut tonnage down and possibly increase the amount of black bin non-recyclable waste.

Members were concerned that fly tipping enforcement staff will not be able to identify where the cut grass is from.

Members wanted clarity on the earlier question about the feasibility of the charges hitting targets in only 6 months.

Officers explained that the council builds contingencies into the budget and where there are savings agreed that fall in a ‘part year’ impact they can be considered appropriate to use a contingency whilst the council gets over that ‘part year’.

Officers stated that if a decision is taken to do these proposals, communication of the information will be driven forward which they hope will lead people to start making changes to recycle more and to move to accommodate the change in their collections.

 

Members were advised that when waste diversion increases, the council saves money on the disposal because it goes to recycling rather than landfill. Recycling allows the council to either get income or a lower cost to get rid of the material. Officers advised that it is very difficult to work out the exact timing of all the savings.

Members felt that the savings for the 25/26 financial year are unlikely to be the £700,000 and for this year contingency funding might be needed to fill in the shortfall.

Cabinet member Scott Jones noted that waste has been discussed for 18months and explained that the Cabinet did instigate the waste strategy and contained as Measure 11 is reference to proposals.

He advised that they were officer’s proposals to consult with the wider public on the three-weekly collection. The Cabinet member noted that a member of the committee referred to 3 weekly collections have been on and off the table, The cabinet member stated that was not correct.

The Deputy Leader Allun Llewelyn advised that he felt that this was a very professional report which reflects that waste disposal and recycling is a very complex situation. The Deputy leader stated that the Welsh Government has given councils another recycling target which the council is working very hard to meet and to engage residents in that. He also commented that there was a huge budget challenge in in front of the council. He felt that there was a need to consider the public response to a consultation and the cabinet would be considering the discussion in scrutiny and any constructive recommendations that that are made before Cabinet. He stated that the cabinet must reach a very careful decision on the options in in front of them.

The chair felt that members appreciate the number of members present today listening to the discussion, which is important.

 

Members felt that a switch from wheelie bins to black bags would be a retrograde step as the wheelie bins were brought in to solve issues with black bags.

Members felt that not supplying the black bags, would be a repeat of the issues before where the black bags will break as people will buy poor quality ones to save money.

Members asked if any diligence been done on the impact of bag only collections on the workforce, particularly in terms of manual handling injuries? Members also asked if any conversations on the proposals had been had with trade union colleagues and if so have they raised any concerns of the well-being of the workforce?

 

Officers clarified that the proposal is whether to consult and if there is a public consultation, officers will also consult with the workforce and trade unions.

Officers explained that many councils have never had wheely bins and they have proposed black bags as it is a saving strategy that has been enacted elsewhere. Members were advised that now would be the best time to bring this in because many refuse vehicles are due for renewal now and would need to be considered before buying new vehicles as it would be 7-8 years before the next opportunity to do this.

 

Members felt that the removal of wheely bins was a step too far because of the various impacts it will have, including the need to have additional cleansing crew to manage the impacts of this particular proposal as included in the report.

In relation to the missed collections policy, members noted that the report states that officers will come back for a further report to review it. Members recommended that that there is a review of the ‘No Side Waste policy’ to be included with the missed collections policy.

Members felt that whether the council goes ahead with this or not, residents are still getting wrong information around missed collections when they go through to the switchboard. Members advised that they are getting more and more phone calls from residents now trying to sort the missed collections out.

Members were concerned that there was a disconnect between what the policy says about staff returning to pick up missed collections and the contact centre telling members of the public that they won’t be returning.

Officers advised that the customer system is being completely revamped at the moment and are working to make sure the information that's going out to residents is clear.

Officers confirmed that they are happy to bring back an update report on the side waste when they bring the missed bins collection report back.

Members asked about with the side waste policy and raised the scenario where they currently had five adults and three children living in my family in the home which means that every fortnight, they put out 4 recycling bags, one bin and 3 purple nappy bags as well as one food bin and sometimes 2 black bags. Members felt that households like that should not be penalised for having extra people in the home.

Officers explained that those families will still get the exemption for purple bags because you're doing everything that the council's asking you to contribute to for recycling and extra non disposal, non-recyclable material. Those families would be entitled to continued exemption for that and that's covered under the policy.

Members asked what was meant by media blasts and if this includes paid for advertising on social media, they also supported printed materials being used to communicate changes but wanted to know how much it would cost.

Officers advised that a media blast is repeatedly putting out information to try to spread the message as far as possible. The officers communications plan covers people who only use social media and the internet and those who don’t. Officers haven’t costed this yet because it will depend on what recommendations members pick and how many properties, officers need to communicate the changes to.

Officers also clarified that the cost of the media information will be very small in comparison to the potential savings of three weekly collections or charging of green waste.

Officers have made comparisons elsewhere on the impact in Neath Port Talbot. But officers don’t know exactly how many people will sign up for the agreement, but that is within the tolerance within the budget estimation.

Officers confirmed that if it is a whole scale service change to three weekly collections, then every household across county borough would receive a paper copy and those who use social media will see the information as well.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved recommendation i.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved recommendation ii.

 

Following scrutiny, an amendment was put forward in relation to recommendation iii. The amended recommendation as set out below was supported to Cabinet.

 

Approve the revised ‘No Side Waste’ Policy set out in Appendix D of this report; with a review report to be included with the missed collections policy.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved item recommendation iv option b.

 

Following Scrutiny members approved item recommendation V option b

 

Following Scrutiny members approved item recommendation Vi option b