Minutes:
The Committee was
presented with a report in relation to the Bus Emergency Scheme (BES) 2; the
report set out the wider context of the scheme which had been introduced as a
result of the pandemic.
It was explained that prior
to the pandemic, Welsh Government proposed changes to the way in which bus
services would be delivered in Wales; a Bus Bill was due to have been brought
forward during the current Senedd term, however pressures associated with Covid
19 had meant that a large volume of legal work, along with the Brexit
transition, had resulted in that bill being delayed. Officers highlighted that
as there was such a large amount of public funding in bus services, Welsh
Government and Local Authorities wanted the public sector to have greater
influence over areas such as the bus networks and services they provide,
ticketing and integration across the board and rail services.
Members were informed
that Welsh Government were working closely with Transport for Wales, which now
included buses; they had provided a lot of support, firstly with Bus Emergency
Scheme 1 and followed with Bus Emergency Scheme 1.5. It was noted that each
scheme in turn had a set of criteria to follow, to make them more accountable
for the public money they were receiving to support their organisations as they
were delivering the services. Officers mentioned that the new scheme was more
significant than the previous agreement as it contained a lot more conditions
for the bus operators.
The Integrated Impact
Assessment (IIA), contained within the circulated report, stated that there
were no impacts on the valley communities associated to the BES 2 agreement;
Members asked if Officers could clarify why the valleys weren’t impacted. Officers
explained that this particular report was in relation to the background
administration and not services on the ground, and as such was not something
that would have any impact on the valleys. Officers confirmed that when they
received further details on the network review of services, they would report
back to Members.
Officers were asked to
explain the benefits of the Council signing into the BES 2 agreement. It was
noted that the Council would have greater influence with the bus service
operators and could make decisions in relation to how they would operate in the
future; it will allow for a more all-encompassing network that will work for
the Council, Transport for Wales and the public. Officers
mentioned that bus services had been withdrawn on a regular basis from various
areas within the County Borough; the scheme will provide the Council with some
degree of control over the service, including being able to challenge decisions
made by bus operators. It was added that currently, the Council subsidises
local bus services for valley and rural communities that were not commercially
viable, with the agreement in place, partnerships would be developed in order
to overcome this; Officers were already working with the consultants employed
by Welsh Government on the strategic bus network, and a meeting would be taking
place in February 2021 to identify what the ideal network would look like.
Members mentioned that
both businesses and bus services had been negatively impacted by the outbreak
of the pandemic, and asked if buses could be used to help promote various
destinations within the County Borough, e.g. Neath Market and Aberavon Shopping
Centre, for when they could be opened again and also promote the concept of
people using the buses to get to these destinations. It was explained that
currently all of the buses were commercial and promoted their own services, due
to this Officers were unsure if the buses would promote these free of charge;
however, there was space on the back of the bus that could be purchased by
businesses to advertise whatever they chose, therefore it was something that
could be looked into. It was added that Welsh Government were currently looking
into holding working groups on how to get people to catch buses again; Officers
suggested that they could also put this idea forward via the working groups.
Officers provided an
update from the meeting between Lee Waters (Deputy Minister) and the Welsh
Local Government Association (WLGA) Bus Member Group which took place on 18
January 2021:
·
During the meeting the Deputy Minister was noted to be keen to address
that Welsh Government wanted to work in partnership with Local Authorities; it
was a constructive first meeting, where Welsh Government were able to present
their views on potential ways forward. It was added that these meetings were
going to continue every six weeks.
·
Members at the meeting expressed their views around the need for Local
Authority influence, and at the same time recognised the key roles for the
Region;
·
The future legislation in this area was highlighted to still be a
possibility, especially if the proposed partnership arrangements with operators
around the BES 2 did not deliver; the agreement would last until the end of
July 2022, and if results weren’t gathered from this by then, Government could
legislate changes in the area;
·
It was identified that the objective of the old 1985 Act conflicted with
the key aims of the integration of the bus network with rail, and other key
elements, such as ticketing and information;
·
Those at the meeting were informed that Government had been paying
multiple operators to compete with each other on commercial routes through the
Bus Services Support Grant (BSSG) and the concessionary fares, particularly in
the urban environment and town centres; it was recognised that the funding
regime was complex, patronage was in decline and Covid 19 had exposed some
flaws in the system;
·
There was reference to social exclusion, in particular that 78% of
people who used bus services did not have access to a car;
·
The Minister recognised that Local Authorities were the starting point
for public transport and had a key role in shaping place, listening to the
communities and holding the bodies to account, including Welsh Government,
whether it be regional or national;
·
It was explained that the governance objective was to provide access to
all, and the Group talked about the response to the climate change and the aim
to create a sustainable public transport network;
·
The four Regions across Wales were noted to have a key role in building
on its previous good practice and holding Transport for Wales to account on the
development of the bus service network that was proposed;
·
The role of Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs) in the bus network
and investment in the rural areas was recognised. The minister felt that there
needed to be a de-coupling of the two, however proposed to issue another
document for Members to review around the rural dimension and bus networks;
·
In terms of the role of Transport for Wales, the Minister made reference
to the ticketing, journey planning system and market information, which all
needed to be developed going forward as part of this BES 2 agreement;
·
It was noted that the Group discussed the funding and that it was
critical in ensuring it will be sustainable going forward;
·
Julie James (Minister for Housing and Local Government) offered some
input regarding the relationships between what will become the future corporate
joint committees and how those plans will be taken forward both in the Planning
and Housing, and Transport sectors;
·
In the meeting, the Minister suggested that Local Authorities and the
Regions would need to determine where was best to deliver, and that there were
no ridged boarders in this respect. It was added that as a Region, discussion
were taking place in regards to what relative functions could be devolved to
the Region, linked with the corporate joint committees;
·
Some Members in the Group highlighted that they didn’t agree with the
centric model and that it would be controlled from Cardiff and Transport for
Wales, and that the Region and Local Authorities would be a key part of the new
model. The Members of the Group very much favoured a hybrid solution in that
respect;
·
In conclusion, the Minister noted the feedback from the four Regions and
the 22 Authorities in which the Local Authorities were reasonably content at
this stage in supporting the direction of travel.
Members queried if the
proposals would have any effect on concessionary fares arrangements. Officers
confirmed that there will be no changes that will impact the travelling public,
however there will be some changes around the administration arrangements;
Officers will be included in discussions, as part of a voluntary partnership
agreement, in regards to what that administration service will look like and
how it is to be resourced.
Officers were asked if the
proposals would move forward towards interchangeable ticketing between bus
companies. It was noted that Welsh Government and Transport for Wales were very
keen on achieving this; it was something that could only be achieved with
Government intervention, and was not something that could be accomplished by
individual Local Authorities with the sector. Officers hoped there would be a
change in this area with the help of the Government.
Members expressed their
concerns in relation to delayed tendering and asked Officers if they knew the
basis in which services would be retendered at the end of BES 2. Officers
mentioned that they had received notice from Welsh Government that currently,
anybody that was putting tenders out could face significant increases in the
prices as the operators would put in for loss of fare as well; therefore it was
a concern as subsidies that were currently being paid could triple. Members
were informed that Officers were looking at the regional transport network with
the consultants that Transport for Wales had employed to carry out this work;
these factors could be highlighted in these discussions, and perhaps some of
the some of the routes the Council were currently subsiding will not
necessarily have to be subsidised. It was added that guidance on this would be
issued going forward.
It was queried if there
could be early cross boundary discussions with other Local Authorities within
the BES 2 framework, where services cross county boundaries. Officers confirmed
that in terms of regional working, Neath Port Talbot Council worked closely
with Swansea, Carmarthen and Pembrokeshire; monthly Transport Officers meetings
take place with these connections. It was mentioned that it was sometimes
difficult it engage with Powys, and Officers have had some cause for concerns
when Powys had or hadn’t implemented something their side, which had
detrimentally affected services to certain areas. However, it was highlighted
that going forward, especially with the set-up of the joint committees, these
issues could be improved on; there were already discussions taking place in
house around these issues that need to be addressed.
Members noticed that the
Bus Member Group did not have any representation from bus users, therefore
asked what opportunities Local Councillors had to feed into the discussions of
this Group in order to ensure that full information was received and that all
needs were met. It was highlighted that Members could raise their concerns by
contacting the Head of Engineering and Transport and/or the Integrated
Transport Manager; the mentioned Officers and the Cabinet Member (Deputy Leader),
was the Councils representative on the Transport Forum and would take any
concerns to these meetings in order to feed them into the process. It was added
that any concerns or queries raised at these meetings would be picked up by the
regional chairs of the Transport Forum who would raise it at WLGA level; the
added benefit that Neath Port Talbot Council had was that the Deputy Leader was
also the Deputy Chair Spokesperson at the WLGA meetings on transport, therefore
the Council was well represented.
A discussion took place
in relation to smaller bus companies in which it was noted that Welsh
Government and Transport for Wales were leading on the bus network review and
the BES, and had been in full consultation with the main operators; however,
there has been some criticism that they hadn’t spoken to the smaller operators.
Members were informed that further dialogue with those companies was going to
take place.
Detailed in the
circulated report it stated that there would be standards that will be
specified as part of BES 2 agreement to provide an objective way to defend the
Local Authority’s right to let a supported contract, where the service offered
by the operator does not meet the specified standard; Members asked for further
information on this. In relation to the legal interventions where challenges
could be made, it was highlighted that the BES was proposing that there be
quality partnership arrangements and there could be potential franchising
arrangements with the Region; moreover, where intervention was needed would be
if the operators decline services for particular reasons, for example not
delivering service due to the patronage. In these cases, it was noted that
Officers could step in and direct the operators to maintain the services,
especially if the public money was going to be continued to be passed in their
direction.
Members were informed
that currently, the Council could not subsidise a bus service on an already commercial
route; however, this was being looked into and could potentially be changed in
the future.
The Committee were
informed that Transport for Wales were already piloting schemes in Pembrokeshire
and North Wales in relation to running their own buses to feed into the main
bus services; however services such as the Community Transport Organisations
operating within NPTCBC could easily take part by enabling their services to
feed into the Transport for Wales network. It was added that much of this
thinking is reflected in the new Wales Transport Strategy.
Members asked if there
was potential going forward for Local Authorities to have their own transport
network services. It was mentioned that it would be expensive for Local
Authorities to run their own bus services, however there were opportunities out
there and Transport for Wales would be looking at all opportunities to
integrate as much transport as they can. Officers added that there may be
changes to bus operations, and that there may be a more demand responsive and
taxi services in rural communities; it was an aspiration to have a bus every
hour in the rural areas and it was something that needed further dialogue.
Members were informed that Officers were looking to achieve a blended solution
into maintaining and improving services in the County Boroughs valley
communities.
The circulated report stated that the BES 2
arrangements were seeking to ensure that operators were incentivised to support
the recovery of the whole network and not just a limited number of commercial
routes; Members asked if this was going to work as far as the providers were
concerned, and if improvements would be seen in the communities, and if not
what would happen. Officers stated that it would be challenging, however there
was a huge amount of money that was going into bus services across Wales; the
BES 2 agreement aimed to tackle issues, and if the operators failed to work
with the Local Authorities and provide an assured network for the community,
Welsh Government may then need to get involved and legislate on that positon.
It was added that in order to get the public to use the bus service and it
sustainable, then a reliable and frequent service was needed. In relation to
funding, Welsh Government had highlighted that it was a key element and more
money would be put into this area for the next financial year; Officers were
hoping that the Council would see some of the benefits from the extra money.
It was suggested that in future, when
completing the Integrated Impact Assessment on the valleys, Officers could put
that it was a benefit / enhancement for the community, rather than stating that
there was no impact.
Members asked how much influence the Council
would have, if the scheme was flexible enough, to change certain routes
depending on public need, and how could the Council penalise should the bus
operators not conform to what was agreed. The Committee was informed that if
and when the operators sign up to the BES 2 agreement, discussions would need
to take place in relation to the details of the agreement including the
expectation of delivery and standards. It was added that currently the Council
did not have much control, therefore when the operators put in their commercial
services, and where they deemed it not commercial, they would tend to reduce or
withdraw the service; with the BES 2 Officers hoped the Council would obtain
this type of influence and control.
Officers were asked for information on the Regional
Lead Authorities and how they were selected. It was noted that since 2013, the
City and County of Swansea acted as the regional bankers for the funding
arrangements and Carmarthenshire was the lead for administration; below this,
the transport sections across the four Local Authorities had worked very
closely together and had monthly meetings in terms of the agreed arrangement.
Members were informed that the Regional Transport Forum debated the subject
matter, as the proposal had been received at short notice; the regional Members
felt it was best, for continuity purposes and for the existing Officers
involved, to continue to support this change with a similar arrangement. It was
explained that the City and County of Swansea were asked and confirmed that
they were prepared to take the lead on the BES 2 and would become the lead
Authority for the South West Region; all of the Officers and Members were in
agreement on this. It was added that the four teams were yet to work up the
voluntary partnership agreement that was shared by Welsh Government recently;
the Regions and all legal colleagues will be reviewing the document line by
line before signing up, to ensure everyone is satisfied and comfortable with
the working arrangements. Officers mentioned that the Regional Officers and the
Cabinet Members for Transport had good working relationships.
Following scrutiny, the
Committee was supportive of the proposals to be considered by Cabinet.